Starting Up

A conversation about launching a new community arts intiative between Greg Kelly and Tyler Denmead. Greg Kelly is the Director and Co-Founder of The Bridge / Progressive Arts Initiative in Charlottesville, Virginia. He can be reached at greg@thebridgepai.com.

Greg Kelly (GK):
I’d like to talk a bit about art and strengthening community. Zack and I are working to focus our efforts on using the arts to forge a stronger bond between otherwise disassociated groups within the community. The factors that contribute to this are income, race, political position, etc. The biggest challenge is offering something truly substantial to each of these facets in the community, beyond simply promoting sub-cultures, rarities, or controversial material, which might draw them out. We're trying to get folks involved on a level of collaboration beyond simply showing up. One example is the screening of the film Freestyle, directed by Kevin Fitzgerald. Kevin's film traces the history, development, and presence of "freestyling" as an element within not only Hip-Hop music and culture but the historical lineage of oral traditions and expression. A young refugee filmmaker from Zaire named Bernard Katina, who we were mentoring at the time, was hugely inspired by Kevin's presence and work. He ended up making one of the most powerful and intimate films of the workshop. He literally went from the silent kid in the corner to one who had found a sense of purpose, identity, and courage of vision. Kevin's film seemed to validate Bernard's interests in way that was profound. In addition to Bernard's transformation, the event itself drew a tremendous turnout. We had moments of great joy watching kids from low-income neighborhoods mixing it up with academics, business owners, and college students who came down to check out the film. There were cyphers, and dancing, and diversity littering the streets.

Tyler Denmead (TD):
That sounds amazing. I have always been struck by how rare opportunities are for people from different places to come together. When we started, I was an undergraduate at Brown University and had serious doubts about my capacity or position to do this. I was confronted on it, and I tried to be honest with myself. Was I aware of the privilege that allows me to engage or disengage in this work when I choose, while the inequities and injustices remain? What are my motivations? I kept coming back to the powerfully dynamic, and unique relationships that I found for myself in this work, and began to see around me. The night you describe reminds me of some of our gallery events when a mix of college students, professors, activists, students, their families, etc. interacted. That experience is so incredibly rare and important.

GK:
Rare and so needed. I grew up in the mid-west in small town America. Most of what I understood about the world came from about 3 suburban blocks of houses, a park, and my family and friends. By the time I was eleven we had moved to St.Louis and as a result I began to become aware of things which I could only translate as "strange". Looking back I realize now the blessing of having had those years in a small community. They nurtured something in me that we seem to be so ambitiously racing away from. I believe that connection, or better connective-ness, is something we all crave deeply, something which our culture is demanding, in growing circles, to be returned to. I suppose that's our shared interest, eh? There is a great irony though in building community from the isolation of an office behind the blinds.

TD:
It is an isolating experience. The first four years were painful for me. A lot of uncertainty, anxiety... Not much language. Not much infrastructure. There didn't seem to be a pathway for our work, even if there was one. When we arrived at an idea, we had to name it... Then, the name wouldn't stick. Then, we would have to revisit the idea again, but the second time would be much more confusing. Now, we have names for stuff. We have language. We know what we mean when we say “fill in the blank.” It makes it much easier.

GK:
I'm approaching the whole thing with the perspective that politics very easily translates to community. I'd be interested to know how you view these elements and their relationship to one another. OR, are they simply synonymous?

TD:
For me, art and community are inseparable. For one to engage in the arts, which I think requires one to practice a creative, meaningful life - then one needs a community. To develop a creative practice, we need a network of support, we need sources of inspiration, we need to understand multiple perspectives. We also need to allow ourselves to be vulnerable, which means that a community that make us feel safe and supported, where one belongs, is also necessary. And, as this creative practice develops, then our imaginative capacity strengthens - and this is where one begins to have a more expansive understanding of who we are (individually/globally) and who we might become. How we choose to get there informs our political identity. I also think on some level that creating any art today is a radical and subversive political act... Nowadays, it takes so much effort to be more than a consumer.

GK:
You've mentioned the element of risk a couple times now. It seems such a valuable trait in our efforts. I'm realizing how obsessed we can become with positioning ourselves in illusions of "safety."

TD:
It seems like there is a tension between creating safe space, and pushing/challenging people.

GK:
Absolutely, and that tension is what also seems to create energy and excitement when getting people together, especially those of diverse backgrounds. It seems a matter of pushing ourselves to be more open, accepting, more tolerant and capable of taking on other people's perspectives and experience.

TD:
The creative process simply is the most powerful tool that gives meaning to people's lives, as well as connecting them with others. The arts, and my relationship with artists, have significantly changed my life. I anticipated being a doctor when I grew up. I never thought of myself as creative.

GK:
Absolutely. I had a very similar experience. Though I believed myself to be an artist I often found it extremely difficult to understand just how to position myself in the world, how to make it work.?

TD:
I suppose that experience is probably necessary for us to be willing to put ourselves in the position that we're in, which is really not that logical, or entirely sensible, depending on how you look at it.

GK:
It seems that safety is so often mental, for all of us. It’s simply unhealthy to continue thinking in terms of “Us” and “Them”. I’m trying to envision how WE get through these barriers, together. Creatively. Beautifully, with courage and compassion, and, for me, most important now, is to be doing this with patience. It's taken a long time to develop a level of understanding about the speed at which things can unfold - like rushing flowers to bloom. Forget it! I'm remembering something that you and Marcus, who helped to co-found New Urban Arts, were talking about. He said that when you guys started you were maturing, coming into yourselves, desiring to develop mature relationships. I believe that's what's happening with us now at The Bridge. Zack and I, and, well, all of us, seem to be desperate for a level of maturity in our relationships, on EVERY level; global, financial, personal, spiritual, etc. I think that the risk is in venturing out into those relationships. It's a vulnerable place to be. One is exposed. I’m curious Tyler, to know what's worked for you?

TD:
Good question. (Read: I don't know if I have a good answer.) I have been very fortunate to be surrounded by amazing people. I have been humbled everyday through this experience, since we started. When we started, I was one cynical boy. I saw New Urban Arts as a response to what was wrong, and I felt New Urban Arts was right. I think that attitude prohibited me from opening myself to others, across difference, and connecting in a way that was meaningful. And, these relationships challenged me to take the risks I needed to change. A friend of mine, who was instrumental in his support for me, and was also one who pushed me very hard in the beginning said that "I was social change," which of course is very funny, but, it's also true. So, I guess, I've tried to fulfill the mission of the organization in the same way that it is practiced by others. I guess I've tried to replace the cynicism in the world, with hope for others. And, I've sought out the most authentic, honest people that I know and tried to imitate them (that’s funny: seeking out authenticity, then imitating it.) And, I’ve learned, that there are quite a few of them out there in the world, more than I ever expected.

GK:
The transformation is so critical - going from "the world sucks, I'm gonna fix it" to how can I serve this situation more effectively? How can I lend my self to helping others who are in the shit with me?

TD:
Right. And, that transformation is an ongoing process for me. It's part of how I continue to grow and learn to do this work better. I think that's why these conversations are critical. This is really an exciting time for you, trying to sort this out in a way that works. So much possibility!

GK:
I just don't want to squander it?

TD:
What are the obstacles?

GK:
Selfishness, with a capital "S".

TD:
How so?

GK:
It's difficult Tyler. I'm a dharma student, and we talk a lot in class about this very thing, the balance between how to truly serve others while taking care of ourselves. It's the whole gig. Pay the rent, get yourself a decent pair of shoes, keep the bike chain lubed, but basically get things aimed at others.

TD:
I'm a firm believer that selfishness is part of this – we each have to have our own house in order. I think we talk far too much about sacrifice.

GK:
Absolutely, but there's a distinction to be made. Selfishness on the level of maintaining our well-being, (good,good!) filling ourselves with love, joy, energy, being healthy and happy BUT to what end?

TD:
Where one might fail, is when one reaches out to compensate for the fact that one's house is not in order - without reflecting on, and being completely transparent about what this means. I think that is what Marcus and I were talking about. (See "Our First Year") If we continued to mask our personal failings and desire in New Urban Arts, then it would not work.

GK:
You just hit the nail on the head - how to balance the risk with compassion - to call a spade a spade and step up to the plate.

TD:
One strategy that comes to mind is to be sensitive to your hierarchy. I'm actually a bit of a traditionalist, in that I think organizations are most effective when there is a clear organizational map with clear roles in decision-making. But, that does not mean that one asserts their authority through their leadership (again, compensating for personal failure.) So, in a way, I see hierarchical leadership structure, but a flat structure when it comes to organizational buy-in and participation. If the latter exists, then leaders will be kept in check. I think Marcus and I were exposed over and over, which prohibited it from entirely being about us - though, we provided much of the energy and brainpower to make it happen.

GK:
How did you form your crew of advisors? Who was there, checking you along the way?

TD:
Our initial advisers were mentors of ours. They kept us in check. Our students and artist mentors also kept us in check. Calling us out, pushing us where we needed to be pushed, and connecting with us in places that were right, and continued to lead us down the right path.

GK:
Did the organization rise out of these insights or was it more of a distinct vision, which was reconfigured slowly? (Subtle difference I suppose)

TD:
I think both. There was a distinct vision, in retrospect, but I hardly knew how to articulate it - and still struggle with it. It's much easier to practice and witness, then explain. With the insights, came a better understanding of the practice. I'm trying to think of an example... Okay, we had a student who came everyday our first year, but did not participate. She was a great kid. I could tell that she was sharp and smart, but also had difficult emotional problems and a severe learning disability. We thought that she wouldn't participate because we were crappy educators. But, it turned out that she was participating, but in the privacy of her sketchbook at home. She showed us her ideas and drawings in March, after 6 months of me beating my head against the wall. That experience revealed the importance of sustained relationships in this work, which in this case, is a relationship that still significantly matters today, 8 years later. This is what fuels my desire to build a self-sustaining organization – so that this work can unfold in the way that it needs to and it needs decades to fulfill its promise.

GK:
The first big realization that's come has to do with choosing a distinct focal point.

TD:
For example?

GK:
We started out in this room with a hundred open doors. We've slowly been shaking it out. We try to create a schedule that's focused on these specifics and work from there. Believing very deeply in the ability of a magnified beam creating a fire that can ripple out. Staying focused on a single demographic (i.e. youth, low-income, elderly) a particular place of need, and doing it in a way that creates a tone, a very magnetic and exciting model of how things can be done differently in a community. Creating something that illustrates a WAY not just a band-aid. That WAY is something I see as being akin to your own “decades” model, establishing priorities and being consistent and steady in our efforts over time.

TD:
I think focus is essential. Sometimes, we try to be all things to everything. We can't even be all things to teenagers, after-school, and arts. We can only be one distinct thing within that giant issue. It takes great restraint, which has been reinforced by our failures to reach beyond our focus. Then, as you described, patience.